Africa-Press – Uganda. How was your tenure as LoP?
It was action-packed. We worked from day one to the last, and I have not stopped working. It was two-and-half years of intense action in a changing political set-up with new actors in the space.
I wouldn’t say I achieved all that I desired but I can say I was able to change the views of the members I was to lead on politics, Parliament, and the government I was to check. I also have no doubt on the issues I left to the regime to answer and the answers still pend.
I introduced a new ethos of doing business in that office, but most importantly, I think I restored the importance of that office to Parliament and the nation. For that I am proud. I led a new party to be visible, to be appreciated, acknowledged and not despised. The questions we asked, the statements we made, the reports we made, and the taxpayer’s money we saved in billions [of shillings] will remain on record as part of our legacy when I was leader.
There are sentiments that you sold out to the regime after you became LoP?
Can you cite examples? And if not, can we, in anyway, take that as a serious statement? Take it as one of those unfortunate rumours from people who have failed to understand or even find their footing in this building [Parliament].
The Opposition is multilayered and that must be contextually understood. You have the Opposition out in the open space where there are no basic rules, where one is free to do as they please as long as it causes no public breach or doesn’t injure the laws and you have the Opposition in Parliament that is a little straight-jacketed by rules. The two operate differently.
When I was an activist and not the LoP, I worked differently. Even now if I walk out to operate outside the realm of Parliament, my demeanour and approach will be different. But when you are a leader in the space I have been occupying, you behave differently. You must allow yourself space to be listened to by everyone and you also listen even to those you do not agree with because you are a leader.
What do you make of the status of the Opposition today, compared to your earlier years?
The Opposition to the regime is growing exponentially because of a lot of disenchantment from the public, and it is obvious that people would rather see a different set of actors presiding over this nation.
The Opposition probably has challenges in leadership because it seems to be at cross-purpose as to what needs to be done. There is a section that says we cannot change the regime via an election, there are also those who want to participate in the next election even if it is called tomorrow regardless of the nature of the environment. Yet there are others who want an election after we have had meaningful constitutional and electoral reforms.
All these disfigure the possibility that the Opposition would speak with one voice and guide the Opposition into a single activity and direction. Previously, we would know what to do and opposition to a particular approach was minimal and negligible. But right now, the voices are loud and various and are a source of confusion to the masses that would rather see the Opposition speak with one voice.
So, how do you convince Ugandans that you can steer the country when you’re disjointed in your messages and most parties are fractured?
The whole idea cannot be an answer of 1+2. There are reasons why the voices are different and you can only have a common answer if you had them in a common space and listened to the reasoning offered. It is a big problem, it weakens our capacity to cause regime change and the actors might find reason to climb down their high horses and listen to each other and communicate with one voice
Do you agree that President Museveni is the country’s major problem as the driving agenda for the Opposition?
This must be contextualised. There has not been any leader since Independence that has been given the chance to take the nation in a direction that is desired. Gen Museveni had an opportunity to congregate the nation to generate a people’s concession vide the Constituent Assembly to produce the [1995] Constitution. That process unfortunately was hijacked.
Because of the failure to build a constitutional order that guarantees succession through a free and fair election, by shifting goal posts over and over when he was required to be a leader, people stand every right to regard him as the problem.
When it was possible through term limits, he changed them, even the age limit; he changed it and by doing that he inhibited change. So, I don’t blame anybody who deems him the biggest roadblock to democratising the country. In him, we have missed opportunities that could have given us an opportunity to transition and guarantee stability for the longest time and allow people to concentrate on utilising our resources for economic progress.
In an earlier address you said Mr Museveni is now clear on his “dynasty agenda,” pointing to the elevation of Gen Muhoozi Kainerugaba to the position of CDF [Chief of Defence Forces]. What are your thoughts on this?
Gen Muhoozi has every right to have ambitions but they should not ride on the backdrop of undermining our democracy. He has been leading the MK [Muhoozi Kainerugaba] Movement, now PLU [Patriotic League of Uganda], and that was in disregard of the law, telling the nation the law doesn’t relate to him as it relates to others. For a serving military officer, that was a sign of a possibility of incubating a dictator.
It is also not common in democracy that the President would look through the rank and file of the military and deems it that only his son befits to be CDF. At the very best, even if your son qualifies, you would stay that for the sake of guaranteeing national stability and keeping the military at peace.
The military has undergone reforms and in those reforms Gen Muhoozi is a co-president. With the new structure he can command and move the military without the direct or even tacit approval of the Commander in Chief. I have no doubt to say that he is heir apparent.
Your integrity has been under scrutiny since you received a service award of Shs500m for serving as LoP. How was this idea conceived, what were the discussions like?
I am not at liberty to disclose how the commission deliberates. We can only discuss the fact that the Commission is clothed with the authority to undertake anything that relates to the welfare of the Members of Parliament. People out there believe that they have an understanding of corporate management and the Commission doesn’t. These powers are through the Constitution and the Administration of Parliament Act that is vested in the Commission. The Commission works through papers, when they are tabled, discussed, issues concerning the law are conversed and once they are settled, then the Commission takes a decision.
But this particular matter was not tabled before Parliament.
Parliament works through committees, and this matter was handled through the right channels of the Committees of Parliament that approve Parliament business, budgets and transactions.
Is that the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee?
There are two layers; a matter from the Commission goes to the Legal Committee, then to the Budget Committee. Was that a personal decision in your view? I have heard people talking about corruption where minutes are available. So, do people take minutes to undertake corruption? Or are people redefining corruption for their benefits?
There is a law against Conflict of Interest in the Anti-Corruption Act where one cannot participate in such a meeting with matters of personal interest. What is your interpretation of that, as you maintain no wrongdoing legally? Why was it discussed as personal to holder?
People out there believe they understand corporate governance and the Commission doesn’t. Do you want me to discuss when the Commission is sitting and a matter about me is discussed? Nobody has a record of how the Commission works and people should settle with the fact that the Commission fully understands how corporate governance works.
When there is a matter of conflict, it is declared. People should cease debating with cram work. The Commission understands the existence of all these laws and when one is required to comply. People have a right to debate but also the duty to understand.
The Speaker promised the House that when, as the Chair of the Commission deems it appropriate, she will respond to those issues. I do not speak for the Commission.
Do you think there are valid moral questions that while social services are cash-strapped; individual leaders are pocketing huge cash?
What is not morally wrong in your view that is supposed to be due an MP or a leader? How is it moral to reward the Vice President, Prime Minister, Speaker, Deputy Speaker; all constitutional offices, and it is immoral for the LoP? How does it arise? These offices have permanent care, where does the moral question arise for the LoP and it doesn’t arise for the others?
Do you regret taking the service award?
Why don’t you ask me if I regret being LoP? Was all my leadership all about this award? Why would I regret doing something lawful and deserved?
What is true about humanity is that everything you do will generate debate. Where matters involve benefit, it will always cause debate. The public debated when MPs received car grants. Are they written in any law of the land? That is the work of the Commission because it takes care of the welfare of the members. People have a right to debate, especially where public funds are in usage, but the debate should bear some level of understanding, and not bear slander. Sentiment without reason is spite and I do not respect that.
Would it be different if the law were amended to say the LoP gets this much? Sometimes we bear sentiments but when we don’t reason them through, we end up injuring innocent people and we do not have space to retract what we have said. When you’re LoP, it is a sacrifice but when your employer deems it fit to acknowledge your work and we have capacity to do this because it is deserved, what do you want me to do? I am a lawyer, I know what stealing is, and I know what corruption is.
How has this affected your family and personal life?
That is when you get to know the people around you but the beauty is that the people around me – my family – understand me better and they know what I can and cannot do.
How would you have handled it if you were the party president and your former LoP is caught up in this mix-up?
I would submit it to due process, get the facts right, and then I would understand what I am dealing with and its impact on the person, the party and the nation and handle it the way I think it should. I have huge exceptions to how my party handled this. How different is that from Museveni’s kangaroo courts in the Court Martial?
So, are you saying that meeting where you reportedly confessed didn’t happen?
So, then why did the [NUP party] President write that I should supply answers? When you confess, then what are you supplying? I think so many things mixed up my President; so much was put to him by whichever interest people had in the matter.
Why is it so difficult for you to step down?
If somebody comes here and accuses you of anything regardless, do you step down? If tomorrow I commit a crime, I would be first to step down, if you’re going to run away from an accusation then you have no space in occupying public space.
What is not being discussed is that this young party NUP has very strong structural and management challenges, which is why when a matter of such nature arises, it finds the party extremely fragile. Everyone speaks out of turn; that is a challenge we have to deal with. A party is a public property and I have a duty to ensure that its asset doesn’t go to the abyss.
You said you wouldn’t leave the party. Why not, yet you left the Democratic Party?
I have had so many problems in this country, murders, disappearances, corruption, nepotism, should I go into exile? You don’t run away. You stand firm and fix the problem. That is what I am out for.
How do you fix a party when you’re not even speaking to your party president?
Is this party about the President? The party is bigger than the President. I am going through consultations with stakeholders; leaders, members, voters, and well-wishers; and when the time is ripe to unpack these wide-ranging reforms, I will share them. Because the party has stakeholders, I am not going to go shouting on every media house and the street; that is not leadership. The party has a problem but it will not be solved at the City Square.
Any closing remarks?
This party is about the people, its formation and eventual sprouting into a major force is because of the people. We have so little time to do so much and all of us must desist from personalising disagreements while running the party, and eventually state affairs.
At this stage, we must offer the country hope that we can be better, and we must develop the capacity to handle disagreements and have the maturity to handle them. We must listen, support and stop undermining each other, it is from this that we can get strength and even offer the country hope that we are better than the people we want to depose.
To the people of Nyendo-Mukungwe; I can assure them that I have not changed in what I believe should be done to change the trajectory of this nation. Ugandans should trust in the person they have known and supported, that I am still around to do what I know. I can only be better, but not worse.
Background
In March, the micro-blogging site, X, was awash with salacious reports about suspected corruption inside Parliament off the hashtag #UgandaParliamentExhibition.
It all started with the outing of former Leader of Opposition in Parliament, Mr Mathias Mpuuga, for accepting a Shs500m handshake in an unprecedented ‘service award’ which has been condemned by his party, the National Unity Platform (NUP), as corruption. NUP demanded that Mr Mpuuga resign from his position as a parliamentary commissioner.
Public outrage was stoked when it emerged that the four other parliamentary commissioners representing the ruling National Resistance Movement (NRM) party reportedly received Shs400m in a similar award.
Source: Monitor
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